How to use your passion to become an influencer

This week, we connect with Jesse McAllister – social influencer and creator of @90sHockeyCards.

In this chat, Jesse gives us insight to how he started his instagram account that’s since amassed quite the following. We’ll chat a little about creativity in the workplace, and how simply sharing your passion can lead to rewarding – and unexpected – opportunities. Oh, and hockey… we’ll talk a bit about hockey too.

What’s your creative passion? 

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Transcription Below

S4E4 – Jesse
Tue, 6/7 4:24PM • 46:10
card, hockey, people, wayne gretzky, creating, picture, jp, funny, nhl, point, printing, years, sharing, find, cool, feel, creative, upper deck, trading cards, drew
JP Gaston, Jesse McAllister, The Biz Dojo AI, Seth Anderson

The Biz Dojo AI 00:00
The Biz Dojo is brought to you by beyond the beaten path. If you’re on the lookout for a personalized gift had to be on the beaten and get started on your custom creation beyond the beaten path, personalize it, because everything else is boring.

Seth Anderson 00:22
On March 30 1979, an 18 year old phenom from Brantford, Ontario was playing his first professional season in the world Hockey Association. He had come to town to play a couple of games against his childhood hero, Mr. Hockey, Gordie Howe Steve Babineaux was also in Springfield that weekend. His regular gig was with the Boston Bruins, but he was on a special assignment that night to cover a wha game that featured hockey royalty. On one side with the New England Whalers you had Gordie Howe with his sons, Mark and Marty, and on the other side, Wayne Gretzky was suiting up for the Edmonton Oilers. At one point during the game, Steve was able to capture a picture of Wayne and bordie taking a face off. But it was another picture that he took that weekend that changes the game forever. Steve snapped a picture from the penalty box. It was a seemingly innocuous picture at the time, but it was one of Wayne Gretzky looking up at the scoreboard. That picture would ultimately end up being used as card number 18. In the 19 7980 OPG hockey card set and included the description. Wayne is considered the best prospect to turn professional since gala Fleur. Back in the early 1980s, you could have walked into any card store and purchased a Wayne Gretzky rookie card for about $1.50. Or more likely, you probably would have gotten it in a pack of cards and probably shoved it into the spokes of your bike tire to create a motorcycle noise. least that’s what my dad told me that he did with the likely hundreds of Wayne Gretzky rookie cards that he would have destroyed his childhood. But it was those very conditions that ended up creating a multi billion dollar industry. About a decade later in the early 90s. That industry was ready to pop. There was a new superstar on the scene. While Wayne Gretzky was piling up points and had recently been traded for the Los Angeles Kings, a young phenom from London, Ontario was getting ready to play his first games with the Oshawa generals in the OHL by the time that the next one, also known as Eric Lindros made his NHL debut with the Philadelphia Flyers in 1992. He had already been featured on several trading cards, everything from wearing a Toronto Blue Jays jersey to no jersey at all, to Team Canada in his hometown Oshawa generals, so as it’s well documented, Eric Lindros ends up getting drafted by the Quebec Nordiques. He holds out for a year and is subsequently traded to the Philadelphia Flyers. By the time the 9293 upper deck series had gone to print, this trade had not been completed. And so after everything was said and done, they actually added an Eric Lindros card after the fact. So what they did was they Photoshopped his head on the rod brind’amour His body, and that’s the first official NHL card of Eric Lindros. It’s actually a bit of a Frankenstein. That practice thankfully has subsequently been discontinued, but that’s what you’re looking at in the first Eric Lindros hockey card. Something that I learned in doing a little bit of research was actually that trading card revenue was one of the key sticking points in the 1992 labor disruption between the NHL and NHL PA and the deal that ultimately ended up getting negotiated saw that 11% of card revenues would go to the Players Association and 9% of the league. What this actually ended up doing though, was creating conditions that made it unsustainable for manufacturers and put a major dent in the trading carbon industry. So all this is going on. There’s a young kid in Kamloops who’s just starting to get into hockey. And you know, it was kind of in the perfect place to do so because if you know anything about the early 90s Junior Hockey scene, the Kamloops Blazers were the team. They won three Memorial cups in four years. And just for a factory of NHL talent, everyone from Scott Niedermeyer, Mark Recchi, Darrell Siddur, Corey Hirsch, Darcy Tucker, Shane Jones, Rome, again, LA, et cetera, et cetera. It was just a great place to be for a young kid that was getting into hockey. You used to be able to actually go up to RCMP officers and they had these little trading cards. It was two cards and usually either a coupon or some sort of a safety tip of, of what to do if you see a bad guy or how to call 911 and things of that nature. And I remember being so excited to get my favorite player’s card back in the day. And that was Nolan Baumgartner. I still have that card to this day. But what I remember the most is in the years that followed, Nolan would actually end up getting drafted by the Washington Capitals 10th overall in 1994, with a draft pick that was actually originally a part of the Eric Lindros trade. While Nolan didn’t end up having a spectacular NHL career, I sought out in those early years to go and find his rookie card. It took me opening a bunch of packs, but I got it. And the funny thing is like I still have that card. And when I look at it, he’s actually in a very similar pose to that of the one that Wayne Gretzky’s in his rookie card. The difference though, is one of those cards is worth $3.75 million. At least, that’s what one of Wayne Gretzky’s rookie cards sold for at auction last spring. And the other one you could find on eBay on any given day for somewhere between one and $2. For me, though, I wouldn’t trade that card for anything, all the stories that that come with it, all the memories that it conjures up. It’s just so much more than the monetary value. And to me, that’s what card collecting is all about. Yes, it’s big business. Yes, you could potentially find a card that you could sell for millions of dollars one day. But for me, it’s been more about the stories around the cards, the people that I got to see play live the heroes from when you’re a kid, sharing those stories with others. That’s what it’s all about for me. This week in the dojo, we’re joined by Jesse McAlister, Jesse started an Instagram account a few years ago called 90s Hockey cards. And its origins are very simple. One day, he came across a cool card and thought, hmm, I love this card. I’d like to share it with people. So he posted it. And then he posted another one. And then he posted a few more. And before he knew it, he had created a community of almost 20,000, people sharing, engaging, talking about hockey, particularly focused on a niche of early 90s Hockey cards. He’s been able to take his collection, add to it, and create a really cool side gig that was completely unintentional. But then, isn’t that what happens when we follow our passions? We do the things that we’re really excited about. We share the things that we think are cool, can create a magnet that attracts other people that feel the same way. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today, Jesse. For those of you at home, Jesse McAllister runs 90s Hockey cards on Instagram, which is one of my favorite accounts, at least the algorithm believes it is because it shows up on my feed.

Jesse McAllister 07:54
That’s great. Thanks for having me on.

Seth Anderson 07:56
Awesome. So tell us like, I guess if I if I were to walk outside of the room that I’m sitting in right now, there is boxes and boxes of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 20,000 Hockey cards, the majority of which are from the 1990s. It never has never would have occurred to me to start a Instagram community with those hockey cards. Yeah. What’s the bolt of lightning or the inspiration that hits you to do that?

Jesse McAllister 08:27
It’s funny, I still remember the bolts, actually, four years ago, summer 2018. I was going through some cards and I pulled one out in my head. That’s cool card I want to share. I want to share that. And I’ve been following other Instagram pages. There weren’t a lot of hockey card pages at that point. But there was some other pages sharing some old vintage hockey stuff. I thought man, I just I just felt compelled to share it. And then it kind of morphed into what it is now, which is me yakking about hockey and that’s what I do everyday at work to people who don’t really care about what I’m talking about some of the stupid stuff that I like go guys who didn’t wear helmets are you guys who wear this kind of hat and it was a place for me to talk about it and I realized there’s a lot of other people who are in the same kind of sauce.

Seth Anderson 09:07
Evidently people like

JP Gaston 09:11
we were prepping for this episode I started talking about my my 91 Upper Deck. Baseball set. It got me got me reminiscing about like how important cards were to me growing

Jesse McAllister 09:23
up and it’s crazy. I had that same set that was only baseball stuff that I had and it’s funny how you can look at a code and immediately it you’re you’re back to five years old again. You know what I mean? I was five when that came out. And I remember getting the packet remember the smell of them. And immediately right back there.

JP Gaston 09:42
We used to buy onesie twosie packs and then my my parents for Christmas but my brother and I full boxes. I think we each got two full boxes and we got a Card Collectors binder with like a special print on the front of an umpire standing in the rain. Nice. I still remember it. Yeah It’s funny,

Jesse McAllister 10:00
like I got this box in 9192 hockey. And I never started getting these until I was like 2530. Because when I was a kid, we just get packs here and there and over the over the course of time, you’d collect them and you get a little stack. You put your favorite nine in the sheet that you had, and whatever you had about now that I’m older, exactly, now that I’m older, that’s the only way I buy cars by the by the box, and I go through.

Seth Anderson 10:23
Did you did you have a favorite card? Back in the day, Jesse? Yeah, it is

Jesse McAllister 10:27
still my favorite card to this day. Funny enough, I actually have right here. And people are always confused and surprised when they see the card that it is. But it’s this one right here is Rob Zettler 9192, upper deck. And it’s funny because I it always annoyed me when I saw off face shots of hockey players on a hockey card, I like to see the actual slap shot the big save. And this one’s neither of those. It’s just rob Zettler. He just got selected by the sharks in their inaugural season. And this wasn’t my first tackle hockey ferrets I got when I was five. And the sharks were new team. So this is my first time seeing their logos and their colors. And for whatever reason stuck with me. And to this day, it’s my favorite card.

Seth Anderson 11:09
I guess continuing on that vein, you get hit with that bolt of lightning. You start this up? Did you ever think that it would morph into like a side gig and like this whole online community that you’ve created?

Jesse McAllister 11:22
Yeah, not really No, not at all. No, I just, I just started throwing stuff out there, I wasn’t even really paying attention to how many people were paying attention. And I would just throw stuff out there. And each time I would share maybe a little bit, I got a little a lot more. I had really started riding along with it. It’s almost like a blog really. And more than just sharing a hockey card, sharing something personal stories with talking cards, or even just different themes that hockey that I found fascinating. And I had no idea that I didn’t really even notice that people were following along as much as they were. And then it just kind of looked at an audience that well, people were paying attention

Seth Anderson 11:59
and sort of was there a moment. So you had the bolt of lightning you had the moment you just started kind of doing your thing? Was there another moment where you’re like, oh, like, I’m onto something here? And did that change how you approach the whole thing? Or if you keep it loose? And do you’re

Jesse McAllister 12:13
not at all? See, I don’t feel that I ever? I don’t I still don’t feel like I’m necessarily on to something I don’t feel much different than I did at the start to be honest. But no, I, I approached it the exact same way. Now as I did that. And as if I mentioned that, that’s all that’s all about is I’m not going to post stuff just to get likes, I really don’t care about that or follows through that stuff. I post what I’m interested in. And if nobody’s if there’s one person interested in it, then it’s then it’s fine. You know what I mean? So people keep interacting that, so that’s great. But I, I guess I still don’t feel any different now than it did that

JP Gaston 12:47
has anything changed to creatively for you along the way, like, I know, for us, we started very similar, by the way we like, we just wanted to kind of, if we inspired one person at some point to do one thing differently in their life, like that would be amazing to us. But we also found that along the way, you know, we started to get more creative and the tools we were using and the things that we were doing within the show. So even though we didn’t really change our, I guess our the values that we brought to the table, certainly our creativity changed. Did you have you found that at all?

Jesse McAllister 13:14
For sure. Yeah, for sure. So it kind of allows you to be a little bit more vulnerable. That was the hard part at first was sharing personal stuff. And it was not super personal. But like personal stories, that sort of thing. Once I got going and I realized, you know, people like that I’m just doing my own thing. And then I’m being you know, just just putting my own experiences out there. And I found as I got going, it did kind of snowball, where I felt, you know, more comfortable doing that or changing it this way, or just get to the point where I truly don’t care what people think anyway, and it just helped me be more open with my creativity.

Seth Anderson 13:52
How would you describe your creative process Jesse like, that’s something we’ve been exploring a lot and something we really want to dive into this season. And one of the things that attracted me, you know, to reaching out to you to be a guest was like the really creative side gig like you said, you don’t really know if you’re necessarily onto something but like, from the outside looking in, like you’ve done something really creative. But wondering like Do you Do you have a process that goes into you know, posting your content or figuring out what is going to be you know, the next step for you in this whole venture?

Jesse McAllister 14:24
Yeah, so I guess it’s, it’s really talked about my finger on. So I have a few different creative outlets, one being this page, being the main one probably. Also artwork also need to do music as well. But even at work I’ll do I do videos, that sort of thing. As far as you know, whether it’s humor or music or Christmas themed commercials, you name it. I do a lot of that stuff at work, and it’s kind of funny. Every time I come up with something that I’m happy with, I feel it’s the last thing that I’m ever going to come up with. And I’ve I’ve hit a wall All, and I’ve done and there’s there’s no more. That was it, it was great, thanks for coming out, but I’m done. And then I experienced a writer’s block or a creative block. And then the next idea comes into my head. Usually when I’m driving, and I have to, I usually kind of work backwards. It’s like it’s in another room, and it’s kind of foggy. And I just need to find my way through to it. And it’s a little different with the hockey thing, though, because I feel like I have more ideas than I have time to deal with them. And that’s what I really like with this page is I feel like I’ve really tapped into my passion. Right? So with this, I have so many ideas. I just can’t get to them all. But with other things I have. I have to really work harder for the ideas or wait for them to drop down into me,

Seth Anderson 15:42
JP, I feel like I know why you were just smirking a minute ago.

JP Gaston 15:47
Why? Why do you think I was working?

Seth Anderson 15:50
Your creative process sounds similar to someone else on this call when he talked about that, when you hit that block so that every time we get to the end of like JP can walk you through what that sounds like?

JP Gaston 16:04
Yeah, pretty much the end of every season is I would say it gets more hurried through the season, we’re very creative and open and flowy at the start, and then towards the end, it becomes sort of a Are we done yet? Is it? Is it time to take a break? Are we are we moving towards our next thing, what is our next thing going to be? Sometimes it becomes we should scrap everything and start over sometimes it’s Hey, we got some good stuff, we should pull that thread and see what happens with it. But it’s very clear that you know, we’ve we’ve defined the end of the season and we’re getting into sort of a new creative space before we either get into the next season or do that the next thing we’re going to do and I would say Seth probably experiences that a little more, at least a little more outwardly than I do. It was just

Seth Anderson 16:48
like when he was saying it. I’m just picturing myself at the end of that season. And I’m like, Yeah, we’re done. But like, there’s something to that, you know, when you’re when you’re creating and you’d like put everything on the table. Yeah. It’s it’s a lot taxing.

Jesse McAllister 17:04
Yeah, it really is. And, and it’s even worse when, like at work, I put out a it’s like a Christmas music song video that I wrote and put together last Christmas. And it did fairly well. And then other companies in town recode everything. I’d like to have that done for my company. I don’t know, I don’t I don’t do that. This just dropped into me to my boss. That’s something he’s like, we’re gonna do this video for this company over here. And I’m like, No, I can’t do that. I absolutely cannot do this. Why are you talking about wordless possibly other. So now I’m, I’m in the midst of it. And I still haven’t come up with an idea. I have to come up with an idea. I don’t come up with ideas on the spot. Ideas come to me. You know what I mean? And so far, nothing’s coming to me. So I almost resent. I almost resented it at times. But it’s just as rollercoaster when I’m off. It’s great. And when you’re down, it’s like, No, I’m done. I’m not I’m not doing this stuff anymore.

JP Gaston 17:49
It’s interesting to me. Because like, on the musical side, I don’t know if it’s different for you with music. But for me, what, what I don’t get the block so much as I feel like I hit my peak in the thing that I’m working on. Yeah. And I don’t want to know how to tie. Yeah, I don’t like I don’t want to do any more with it. But it’s not done. Like songs are the greatest example. All right, 87% of a song. And then I go, Well, I got 13 More percent to write. But I had a cool idea in there. And I want to start exploring that and not finish the thing that I’m working on. It’s not fun. And it’s like, it’s really, really hard to get back to and finish it. Even when that idea does come to you. Do you find that as well, like in music and in your other endeavors? For sure.

Jesse McAllister 18:35
So I have so many unfinished ideas, whether it’s blogs, posts, or themes, whatever, I have them written out or maybe even done, you can probably just hit send on it, and it’s done. But it’s not done. And I keep thinking I’m gonna come back to it. And part of me has realization that, you know, like with art, drawings never done or paintings never done. It’s always that you can keep on going forever. At some point you have to walk away from say, Yep, it’s done. It’s good enough, but it’s never good enough. When it’s your own creation. I definitely get that. And this is a lot the same with this. And part of it is like when I put something out there, it’s like okay, if it had some success, it’s like that was great. Well, I’ll never topped out again, so I’m done. I experienced that. Not that I have so many great things but just in my own mind I feel like I’m not sure how I’m gonna overcome that

Seth Anderson 19:22
last one is it is a desire to like leave on top of something like leave with

Jesse McAllister 19:28
five years old or like stated a lot of years left and so I don’t want it like that’s part of it. But I find with my Instagram it’s actually the opposite like i That’s with like, I’ve got two totally separate creative minds fighting each other for attention. And the one that I’m nurturing tends to be the hockey one because that’s really where my, my passion is. It’s I’m passionate about both music and hockey, but the music one I find is just so much more volatile. It can be really taxing but yeah, the hockey one no I, I don’t have this need necessarily glitter on top. I just keep on going. But I can see it with the music one that’s like yeah, you know what? That was great. Let’s leave it alone. Thank you see you later.

JP Gaston 20:08
Do you ever feel like when you do get that feedback, and people are like, Hey, that was awesome blah, blah. And it was only, you know, 90% complete and you decided to hit send. Do you ever feel like dammit, I should have finished that last? Like, imagine how amazing it would have been?

Jesse McAllister 20:21
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So this Christmas wanted for instance, I’m running, I was waiting for snow and I had to get I had to do this video once it snowed. And I had to have it open for Christmas. So I had one snowstorm and like two days to get it out. So I whipped this together as fast as I could hit send. Okay, it’s not too many people don’t see it, not doing fairly well. And then I got upset with myself. I couldn’t even sit down all night long. I didn’t look my phone. I knew the views. Not my inbox was coming in and I couldn’t look at it. I was so mad. Because I didn’t finish it. I just I I finished straight. And I was very upset with myself and still can’t watch I have a hard time watching the video.

Seth Anderson 20:59
Honestly, like so many things going through my head. But the one thing that standing out is how do you know when a painting is finished? And that was a question. Like obviously there’s a literal like you do art. So there’s like a literal like you can put that But even you know JP some of the one of the things I asked myself in the offseason of the of the show is like how do you know how will we know? When like The Biz Dojo paint, like when when is that painting finished? Like when everything ends? Like how do you know? And I landed on it’s not because we’re here, we’re recording this right now. But like, as an artist or someone in the creative space, like how do you know when a painting is done? Like that’s? That’s it? That’s

Jesse McAllister 21:37
like the most difficult part, I think, other than where to start? is where to end? Because where to start can be as difficult. But where to end? Yeah, I don’t I don’t say I can answer that. I think at some point, I’ve learned to walk away from it. I actually, I walked away from art altogether for 20, almost 20 years, and didn’t do with like from high school till now. for about 18 years. I didn’t do any art at all. And because I was somewhat of a perfectionist with my hair. And I was starting like, I can never make that look good. So I’m done. And then I decided to do the sloppiest drawing I ever did. And just throw it together 10 minutes, and I was done. And I just said no, it’s done. It’s done walk away, and I walked away.

Seth Anderson 22:17
What about it? What happened in that moment? Like, what was it about it? You were, like clicked?

Jesse McAllister 22:23
I think I just I don’t know, I don’t know the answer. And I did it was a stormy night, I had nothing else to do. And it was just like I’m gonna draw a picture. So I pulled it out. And I drew is Rob Ramage scorecard, hockey,

Seth Anderson 22:41
for the money and every angle for

Jesse McAllister 22:42
the Maple Leafs. And so I, I drew a sideways card, I drew it, and I just did black and white and blue and black, white and blue was all it was just very, very basic, terrible drawing. And I gave myself like 15 minutes. And I was like, Oh, it’s 16 minutes. Okay, I’m done. It’s done. Good enough. Those, I’m gonna do another one. So I grabbed another sheet. And I drew another one that I drew. And I did three that night. And so that was kind of fun. And the next day, I did another one, but I spent some time on. And I was like, that was fun. Let’s let’s make a better one. And it wasn’t that good either. And then it’s addictive. So when I was at work, I would I would actually be like thinking like, oh, I can’t wait to go home and try some of that. Try this style here a little bit. And since then, I’ve been constantly changing my style. And until I basically kind of found my style, I think. And but it all started with just saying no, just kick it out. Just kick it out. And it’ll be done. And that’s been true for so many other things in my creative life is knowing when to emotionally remove myself from the the art and say no, this is good. Because artists in general are never happy with their own work, they don’t seem to be anyway, was never finished. So I had to learn how to just put a period on it and move on.

JP Gaston 23:59
There’s literally not a thing that I have made that I am perfectly happy with. There’s stuff that I’m like, you know, somewhat proud has gotten out there. And, you know, I’ve enjoyed creating, but

Seth Anderson 24:11
like The Biz Dojo podcast, yes. For example.

JP Gaston 24:15
I am proud of what has been created. But if I sit down and I listened to an individual episode, I will to your point, nitpick it, and that piece of art will never ever be done. Right? Because I want to get every syllable perfect, every sound perfect. I want I want the listener to experience it the way that it’s in my head, because the way that it’s in my head is so good. It’s clean, like everything’s awesome.

Seth Anderson 24:41
I think similarly, though, to what Jesse was saying, like part of the process with this painting being the podcast, is we just started putting it out and we knew it wasn’t perfect. And what did we do 75 episodes in a year, and just like out out out and we iterated and we’ve made it better and we’ve improved it as we’ve gone along and that process. It’s very similar. I don’t know, like, I’m just kind of jamming on that right now. But I guess JP, does that sort of bark anything to be like, when do you know when a painting is done? Like, Have you learned anything through that process?

JP Gaston 25:13
I mean, I have, it’s, it’s kind of what I’ve done with music in the past to you, right? Like, I’ve created songs, and I’ve just said, You know what, forget it. Let’s click that button. Let’s click submit or click Send or whatever. And like, Good things come from it. And it’s amazing how much good things can come from it. Like, our podcasts like we just, there’s so much that has happened as a result of us just clicking Submit. But it’s, it’s so hard to get to that point. And even when you know that you’re getting that success, it’s still hard. It gets a little easier, but it’s still hard every single time you click Submit.

Jesse McAllister 25:48
It’s funny to hearing you say that like clicking it or sending it that’s something I I haven’t really I’ve struggled with, but my my boss actually work i i work for car dealerships used independent and my boss, I have a real good friends. He also does leadership training, and all kinds of cool stuff. So we’re, we’re always like, this is like the starting of our day, like what we’re doing right now. Every day at work, we go in and we have this. So it’s really cool. But she is a Cendant guy. He’s like, let’s do it. Yep, that’s gonna happen. So I would have this idea. And I’m more of an ideas guy, and they don’t get off the ground. So I’ve been working for him for about seven years. And I was sharing with share these ideas. Hey, you know, you’re funny video. What if we did it like this? And he’s like, okay, we’re doing it now. And I was just, I just thought to be a funny idea. Well, then he shows up as he buys all this gear, he’s like, No, here we go, we’re gonna do this right now. So then I have to do that. And then what is it was so empowering to have him open the door, basically, for me, and really enabled my creativity and let it flow. Because I wasn’t, I wasn’t really doing it myself. And Eve, I think that even carried over into what I’m doing with Instagram. Just the freedom to do that the freedom to be creative, the freedom to just put yourself out there.

Seth Anderson 27:08
It’s funny, because you wouldn’t necessarily tie together, the two things we have been talking about, but I’m thinking about emails, and hitting send, because it’s kind of the same process, like you write out an email, especially to like an executive audience or like going to a large distribution or to someone. And it’s like, you can spend a lot of time fixating on every period, every comma every word and still completely miss something. And like I had to, like start coaching myself, like at some point, you just have to hit send. Exactly. But it’s funny how through this conversation, like there’s a creative the creativity, there’s like an art aspect. Like it’s sort of a similar process. But you don’t necessarily think of that when you’re in the moment of sending an email. Oh, yeah,

JP Gaston 27:48
it’s all something you create, you’re writing an email, you’re putting your stamp on a project, if you work in that space, you put whatever it is you’re doing, whether it’s an audience of one or a million, you’re sitting there waiting to hit send, I actually find like, musically, I find that it’s much easier to send to an audience of a million. But okay, I’ve never had that audience. But it’s easier to

Seth Anderson 28:14
Why aren’t you sending them our

JP Gaston 28:17
audience of 100? Take off a few zeros, but no larger audiences, I actually find it easier to send to you than the smaller intimate ones. Because I think internally I feel like there’s potential for more criticism and more backlash there. And that actually is a bit of a block to my creativity. I want to follow a strict some sort of structure a little bit more, because it’s in a, I would say, more hostile space, but it’s not actually a hostile space. It’s actually less hostile, but I perceive it.

Seth Anderson 28:48
You just think it is.

JP Gaston 28:50
Yeah, there’s nothing more hostile than the internet. So I don’t know why sending it to a million people. It’s not a problem.

Jesse McAllister 28:57
Yeah, I guess you’re saying I feel the same way, especially with music, you know, I’d much rather played or Hamlet than than just 10.

JP Gaston 29:03
Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s, I think that’s where I’ve experienced it most. Playing one on one or playing you know, playing in a small bar for a pitcher of beer. Like most people who live in Ontario and play in a band who have experience. That’s, that’s hard. But you know, when you have a good sized audience, or you’re playing a festival or something like it just it feels different.

Jesse McAllister 29:22
Yeah, for sure.

Seth Anderson 29:24
Just want to jam on building online communities a little bit like this is something JP and I think we’re looking for tips and tricks. And I think a lot of people are like everyone’s trying to figure out how do you you know, not everyone, but anyone who’s got sort of a podcast or you know, an online presence, they’re trying to build a community and it’s not an easy thing to do. And obviously, you’ve cracked at least part of a code in that realm. Have you have you had to deal with any like haters or trolls or any of the negativity that comes with the online or is sort of your niche been pretty nice is pretty good. It’s

Jesse McAllister 29:59
pretty good. So you’re gonna get that no matter where. But yeah, I don’t get a lot of that because, well, I mean, I follow a lot of hockey base, there’s a lot of trolls, there’s a lot of jerks

Seth Anderson 30:09
on Twitter.

Jesse McAllister 30:10
So first up, I don’t go on Twitter, but I had I deleted Twitter off my phone because I just can’t handle that. But hockey curd people tend to be a little bit more or less more down to earth, you know, not necessarily under a little more mature and maybe more inventory by Saturday. They seem to be a better software grads work. But anyway, and I still get them. But not a lot. Like it’s actually been I’ve been very fortunate there. I also find you get back what you put out to a little bit, you know, if I try not to be a no at all, I try not to be I don’t get political, I don’t do it in his too polarizing. It’s not that I don’t stand up for what I believe in. But I did that stuff on my own time with my own with my own thing. And I’ve never gotten into any cars or anything. I’ve never gotten into take any strong positions either. Which I know that’s maybe a bad thing. A lot of people would say, to not take one. But for this, this is about hockey cars. And that’s what I do. And I think people like and appreciate that. And I think that’s that’s what kind of filters those people out.

Seth Anderson 31:15
Is there anything? Any sort of magic? I know that you’re still kind of going through it? But like, within the community? Has there been any really cool things that have happened or popped up or that have really made you go? Hmm, like, this is pretty cool.

Jesse McAllister 31:28
Yeah. So there’s been, yeah, a few of them. And I find that comes from interacting, like I, I respond to just about every comment or DM that comes through. And I think a lot of my posts are interactive anyway. So it’s, it’s really, it’s a little more engaging, I think, for people. So it’s been really neat. Like there’s a, there’s a shop in Toronto hockey card shop that he saw my stuff. He’s like, Oh, here, I got a, I got a shipment for you have a box shop, my door was packed full of hockey card boxes. And every few months I get another shipment from him. That is it’s so cool. He says just rip them open on on videos. So keep in common. So I got a really cool message from from a guy here a few months few months ago and I he asked me where to get carried. So I told him where to go. And that’s flipped. Ron was the guy who does it. And anyway, he He sent him a message possible about products. And he pulled the holy grail of 9192 or 90 Hockey cards. The Stanley Cup is the Brett Hall. Okay, that whole autograph. There’s only 2500 I think it’s even more rare than the Stanley Cup. And like that’s the card I’ve been chasing my whole my whole life and and he pulled that. So that was kind of neat as all kinds of cool stuff like that. Even even a lot of players like former players are messaging, they follow my page, they’ll message me with some stories of when they played and that’s just really cool. You know, it’s even players sons like, like Mark messi a son, I had a question was something Mark Messier son was messaging me about something. And that’s how cool is that? You know, he’s he’s into cars too, because his father, father played right. So we excited. That’s just cool.

Seth Anderson 33:07
I’m actually pretty sure that Darcy Tucker follows your account too. So we might have to go there you go.

Jesse McAllister 33:12
Yeah, there’s, there’s a few of them. That’s that’s just kind of a cool bonus. Because as a kid, these guys were larger than life. They were so unreachable, you know. And now here they are on the same platform as we are hanging out the same as we do. They’re regular guys. And it’s cool to get messages from them. Or sometimes I’ll message them with, I try not to bombard them or spam spam them. But I’ll if I’m working on a theme or or something, I’ll send it out to some of the guys. And they’re so great for getting back and sharing some cool stories or sharing an idea. And the ones that I’ve had the hardest time hearing back from there’s, there’s actually a guy who plays college hockey, and no names his father played the NHL. And anyway, so I asked him a question. He was like, just not into it, like one really answered and then like, just walked away from the conversation. And it’s people who almost had the taste of success, I find sometimes are the worst to deal with. And the guys who are successful are the guys whose fathers are successful. They’ve been just so great to deal with and so pleasant and have so much to share. It’s just funny how that works.

JP Gaston 34:19
So what have you learned from your from from having a side gig? Like, how is it? How’s it kind of changed the rest of your life? Because I’m interested in to go from zero followers to you know, several 1000 followers. It’s got to change your perspective on a lot of things. How has it changed for you? No,

Jesse McAllister 34:38
not exactly. Not Not really. I guess it I don’t think it has too much. Again, I don’t really pay attention to how many people are there and as far as everyday life like the people who are around my small town, like most people don’t even know I do this, right? No, it hasn’t really a whole lot but it’s it’s one of those things I have to make time for and it’s hard to find time I’ve got a wife and a baby and a full time job. So it’s, it’s something that I find, when I’m in my creative mode, I’ll prepare for the week to come or weeks to come. And then through the week, sometimes I, you know, I get to business get to work, and I’ll monitor my stuff, but I’m not really creating, necessarily through through the week, in my head, I’m always creating, but it’s one of those things, it’s, it’s time consuming. So I have to be careful that it doesn’t take, take over my, my everyday life too much, because I gotta get a lot of stuff on the go. Well,

Seth Anderson 35:35
it sounds like just in what you were playing through, like with some of the hockey card art, which was sort of the byproduct of that, that’s really helped you start to understand your creative process and apply that to other aspects. Yeah, which was probably a completely unintended

Jesse McAllister 35:51
it really, it really was. But it’s helpful, so much, so many other avenues in my life. But that’s, that’s something that it’s funny, I’m still doing it, like, my wife, and I will if we watch TV, at the end of the day, I’ll grab my sketchpad and I’m watching TV and sketching something out. So it’s fun to actually get that have that creative outlet. But the process of it is really help direct, you know, other things in life that I’m doing and really help execute. You know, that’s, that’s been great.

Seth Anderson 36:22
And I’ve got it on my wall. I didn’t notice that kind of thing. Yes.

Jesse McAllister 36:26
That’s funny. That’s the Gretzky one. Yeah, it’s perfection. Like one of the things I had a hard time with was those I intentionally. I intentionally didn’t do them. I don’t say I didn’t do them. Well, I didn’t do them to perfection. I left the faces blank. And I, I just I

Seth Anderson 36:44
liked. I liked that drew me. I was like, That’s dope. Like it’s Yeah.

Jesse McAllister 36:49
And if you’ll notice the one, the sixth one, so middle middle row for our right, I screwed up this space on that one. I dabbed a black marker instead of a clear one. And I said, Let’s just make that a happy mistake. So you can kind of still see it there. But it was, that’s something that would have like, when that happened. I was like, oh, freak, I’ve messed up holding on. I was almost done at that point. So it’s funny how it was he was just what

Seth Anderson 37:13
do you say? I think I have that card. No, I have that. I have the other one. I have to add the fourth.

Jesse McAllister 37:16
Yeah. The fourth one, it’s cool when I like that. I love those. All these cards are so colorful, right? And that’s that’s what, that’s what makes it fun to recreate.

Seth Anderson 37:26
That’s super cool. I love it. I actually have a listener question. This week, JP, not from us. So I promise, I promise she does not. So cousin Jeff, who’s actually interacted with you and I believe and how I found your page was still a big fan of your work cool. And he wanted to know, Do you know why the Gretzky card featured on the set of the 9091 upper deck wasn’t the one that was actually made? And you know, if there’s like, is there actually a copy of that?

Jesse McAllister 38:02
Yeah. Okay, that’s, that’s actually pretty cool story. And I’m gonna butcher it a little bit. But that. So on the boxes, they have a picture of, you know, some of the preview of some of the carrots and it has Gretzky, it’s just a headshot. I believe in the black. He’s wearing black. Yeah, it’s just a headshot of them sitting on the bench. And the card they released was one of the white sweater and you can kind of see the 99 in the back. And it’s during warm up. And the the one that’s on the box was used as a prototype. There’s actual printed versions of it. And they gave it the card, one of the card expos or something in 1990, you know, in anticipation of the new hockey cards that was coming out that was going to completely change the landscape of hockey gear switch than it did before it was cardboard. It was a peachy or tops right? And then this came out with this nice gloss finish. Lots of color, great action photos. So yeah, that card actually exists. They did one of Gretzky and one of walk. And both of the prototypes I like better than the ones that actually came out. And the pictures on the back are cooler. So upper deck, release them just just at that show, and I believe they came like a case. You can see front and back. And then I’ve heard rumors that they reprinted them and have sent them out so I don’t own either one of them. I’d love to get my hands on them someday. But they’re they’re really really cool. There. The originals are rare, but the reprints I guess you can you can get fairly inexpensively. But yeah, I liked the one in the box better than the one they put in the sack. That’s kind of the backstory and what I remember of that story anyway.

Seth Anderson 39:44
No, that’s cool. I didn’t that’s awesome. That’s a great sorry.

JP Gaston 39:50
I’m thinking back to all the times I’ve looked at the box and thought wow, that’s cool. Like not even just cards, but you know, it’s almost it’s almost like going and ordering a hamburger for We’re a fast food place and you look at them. Like, Oh, that’s amazing. That’s the one I want and then you open up like, that’s not what I got. That is not even close.

Jesse McAllister 40:09
Well, it’s funny. You look at the score box from the same year, they had a picture of Miguel on the on the cover, and I think it was like Jeff Brown or grant Lydiard. But who looks at and says, Oh, the grant lead your ID card. I gotta have that.

Seth Anderson 40:22
I gotta. I gotta I gotta

Jesse McAllister 40:24
I can’t remember exactly what was now but they had Mogilny written on there. Actually, I haven’t read it. Yeah, yes, Miguel. And some of the choices that they put for for on the box it’s like really do I want like I’m just looking at these ones here. Yeah, product did a great job. They’ve got all the big stars and then I’m and those guys that that makes me want to buy it. But some of these other guys. It’s like, oh Claude LaPointe. Are these cool? Yeah, I love that.

Seth Anderson 40:49
Awesome. Mark, have a good hockey team right there. Have you seen the documentary on Netflix about the card industry and in particular, they went in depth on the Ken Griffey card and seen that now. I have to pull up the name. I can’t remember what it was called. But it talked about how the Ken Griffey card like basically ruined the card industry just like the the early 90s card industry was a bubble and it burst. And what ultimately bursted other than the mass overproduction was that Ken Griffey card, and basically how the card dealers were just printing sheets of that card. And they were basically just printing $20 bill. Yeah. What they were doing, like there was an unlimited supply of those cards, and they would just put another one up there every single time. And like, it’s a fascinating industry. And like, there were mob ties and like, the whole deal.

Jesse McAllister 41:45
Yeah, it’s it really is crazy. A lot of people say a lot of people hate on the 90s cards. Because of that. I’ve even I have occasionally get inbox messages. People say, Hey, man, I hate to tell you, but your cards aren’t worth anything like, oh, no, I guess. What am I what am I doing this for a waste of my time, I actually like that that happened. Because I was five and 19. Anyone. So the boom happened, you know, either 99 wondery During that time, and for the next straight up until the mid 90s. They were they were just printing them like like you say, just printing hurts like crazy. But that’s made it a lot more plentiful. For me, it allowed me to get into it at a great time. And now if I want to experience a little bit of nostalgia, it’s not gonna cost me a lot of money to get an old box of cards, and have a lot of fun, right? So personally, I’m kind of I’m kind of happy with that. Look at this. Oh, very nice. Now, coming up,

JP Gaston 42:42
the one thing that we did say we are asking all of our guests that we didn’t actually ask you, how do you define creativity?

Jesse McAllister 42:49
Ooh, it’s funny.

Seth Anderson 42:51
I think it’s good that we waited till Yeah, so that he could go through the whole process. It actually

Jesse McAllister 42:55
helped me define it just from talking it out. Yeah. It’s one of those things, you kind of have to talk it through, I guess, creativity, it’s funny. I think if I truly knew I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be creative. It’s one of those things. It’s, like I said before, it’s almost like it’s often the fog isn’t another room. There’s things out there, they just need to be strung together. And then there’ll be they’re kind of dropped in to me. And I have no control over that. And then once we’re there, I just kind of arranged arrange what I’m doing like, like, whether it’s music or or poor or the writer, it’s just a matter of kind of hearing something off the distance and saying, Hey, come over here and he get it in your hands. And he’s like, Okay, here’s where it goes. And it’s so hard to define. And I think I think it defines creativity defines itself as it lands in your lap and I have no control over it at all. So it’s it’s tough to define like that.

Seth Anderson 43:55
Yeah, I agree. I I love though you know, JP and I we had a chance to meet what would you even call Walter creative genius. I guess we’ll go with this professor from Belgium and he he throw it a definition and his TED talks just it’s stuck with me since the day I saw which was connecting things that have never been carried out for and I was just like that’s what I just really cool. Very cool. But let’s now you can take that with you

JP Gaston 44:23
that’s kind of what you just said to you like there’s it really it’s foggy you don’t know what it is it kind of just finds its way to you and you know you’ve got this crosshatch of things that find their way to you at the same time and come together in this cool little version of something that you were able to create on your on your own or with you know with the help of others

Jesse McAllister 44:47
for sure. That’s that’s a really sums it up right there.

JP Gaston 44:51
I’m also very visual so picturing in my head like just driving with this fog and then, you know, every every scary movie you’ve ever seen where you just don’t see any thing and then all of a sudden something is kind of a murky hotel in the distance and you’re driving towards it. And then then there’s a light and then there’s a person and then there’s like it just gets clearer and clearer the closer you

Jesse McAllister 45:10
get to it on and then at the end you you realize you know that you kind of put it all together, and it feels like it’s almost happening as a movie that you observed. A creativities when he comes observe it, but you’re actually the one that’s kind of making it happen. Right. So that’s, that’s kind of cool. And like a horror movie. Sometimes

JP Gaston 45:26
it’s too late by the time you realize where you’re

Seth Anderson 45:31
amazing. Well, Jesse, thank you for joining us today. It’s an absolute pleasure. People who want to learn more about what you’re up to. Where can they go?

Jesse McAllister 45:39
You can find me on Instagram 90s Hockey cards, pretty easy to find. When I started the account, I couldn’t believe that was still available. It’s like figured somebody would use this one by now. But yeah, 90s Hockey cards, you can find me on there. I had a great time guys have me on anytime. I’m always happy to come back.

Seth Anderson 45:57
Take care. Thanks, guys.

Jesse McAllister 45:58
See you

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